So whatever was happening there was important. If they've been doing this, as you suggest, for 2,000 years, nearly, what makes you think that a few ancient historians are going to turn that aircraft carrier around? But so as not to babble on, I'll just say that it's possible that the world's first temple, which is what Gobekli Tepe is referred to as sometimes, it's possible the world's first temple was also the world's first bar. Now, let's get started, Brian. I mean, something of symbolic significance, something monumental. And then that's the word that Euripides uses, by the way. And when I read psychedelic literature or I read the literature on near-death experiences, I see experiences similar to what I experienced as a young boy. 40:15 Witches, drugs, and the Catholic Church . You see an altar of Pentelic marble that could only have come from the Mount Pentelicus quarry in mainland Greece. pagan continuity hypothesis - diamondamotel.com BRIAN MURARESKU: Dr. Stang, an erudite introduction as ever. I appreciate this. And so in some of these psychedelic trials, under the right conditions, I do see genuine religious experiences. CHARLES STANG: OK. Now let's move into the Greek mystery. So again, if there were an early psychedelic sacrament that was being suppressed, I'd expect that the suppressors would talk about it. Klaus Schmidt, who was with the German Archaeological Institute, called this a sanctuary and called these T-shaped pillars representations of gods. We don't have to look very hard to find that. And shouldn't we all be asking that question? 55 This is very likely as it seems that the process had already started in the 4th century. Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and - Podchaser They followed Platonic (and other Greeks) philosophy. And how do we-- when the pharmaceutical industry and when these retreat centers begin to open and begin to proliferate, how do we make this sacred? It's a big question for me. And I don't know what that looks like. The mysteries of Dionysus, a bit weirder, a bit more off the grid. All that will be announced through our mailing list. So those are all possibly different questions to ask and answer. One attendee has asked, "How have religious leaders reacted so far to your book? So we not only didn't have the engineering know-how-- we used to think-- we didn't have even settled life to construct something like this. And in the ancient world, wine was routinely referred to as a [SPEAKING GREEK], which is the Greek word for drug. I just sense a great deal of structure and thoughtfulness going into this experience. To be a Catholic is to believe that you are literally consuming the blood of Christ to become Christ. I'm paraphrasing this one. The divine personage in whom this cult centered was the Magna Mater Deum who was conceived as the source of all life as well as the personification of all the powers of nature.\[Footnote:] Willoughby, Pagan Regeneration, p. 114.\ 7 She was the "Great Mother" not only "of all the gods," but of all men" as well. Mona Sobhani, PhD Retweeted. All right, so now, let's follow up with Dionysus, but let's see here. And if the latter, do you think there's a good chance that religions will adopt psychedelics back into their rituals?". BRIAN MURARESKU: Good one. Where does Western civilization come from? Books about pagan continuity hypothesis? That's one narrative that I feel is a little sensational. So at the very-- after the first half of the book is over, there's an epilogue, and I say, OK, here's the evidence. Tim Ferriss is a self-experimenter and bestselling author, best known for The 4-Hour Workweek, which has been translated into 40+ languages. But what we do know about the wine of the time is that it was routinely mixed with plants and herbs and potentially fungi. So. Now, I mentioned that Brian and I had become friends. I would expect we'd have ample evidence. How does, in other words, how does religion sit with science? She joins me for most events and meetings. And we know from the record that [SPEAKING GREEK] is described as being so crowded with gods that they were easier to find than men. This time around, we have a very special edition featuring Dr. Mark Plotkin and Brian C . So first of all, please tell us how it is you came to pursue this research to write this book, and highlight briefly what you think are its principal conclusions and their significance for our present and future. And did the earliest Christians inherit the same secret tradition? What Brian labels the religion with no name. We have other textual evidence. Not in every single case, obviously. And there you also found mortars that were tested and also tested positive for evidence of brewing. I wonder if you're familiar with Wouter Hanegraaff at the University of Amsterdam. BRIAN MURARESKU: I wish I could answer that question. And if you're a good Christian or a good Catholic, and you're consuming that wine on any given Sunday, why are you doing that? That is about the future rather than the ancient history. And I think that we would behoove ourselves to incorporate, resuscitate, maybe, some of those techniques that seem to have been employed by the Greeks at Eleusis or by the Dionysians or some of these earliest Christians. So can you reflect on the-- standing on the threshold of pharmaceutical companies taking control of this, how is that to be commended when the very people who have kept this alive would be pushed to the side in that move? I mean, I think the book makes it clear. And what you're referring to is-- and how I begin the book is this beautiful Greek phrase, [SPEAKING GREEK]. So if Eleusis is the Fight Club of the ancient world, right, the first rule is you don't talk about it. That's just everlasting. And, as always the best way to keep abreast of this series and everything else we do here at the Center is to join our mailing list. So Dionysus is not the god of alcohol. Maybe I have that wrong. Now, I have no idea where it goes from here, or if I'll take it myself. And why, if you're right that the church has succeeded in suppressing a psychedelic sacrament and has been peddling instead, what you call a placebo, and that it has exercised a monstrous campaign of persecution against plant medicine and the women who have kept its knowledge alive, why are you still attached to this tradition? And I'm trying to reconcile that. He's been featured in Forbes, the Daily Beast, Big Think, and Vice. And it was the Jesuits who encouraged me to always, always ask questions and never take anything at face value. That would require an entirely different kind of evidence. But in any case, Ruck had his career, well, savaged, in some sense, by the reaction to his daring to take this hypothesis seriously, this question seriously. So Gobekli Tepe, for those who don't know, is this site in southern Turkey on the border with Syria. So what have you learned about the Eleusinian mysteries in particular since Ruck took this up, and what has convinced you that Ruck's hypothesis holds water? By which I mean that the Gospel of John suggests that at the very least, the evangelist hoped to market Christianity to a pagan audience by suggesting that Jesus was somehow equivalent to Dionysus, and that the Eucharist, his sacrament of wine, was equivalent to Dionysus's wine. And the big question for me was what was that something else? Now that doesn't mean, as Brian was saying, that then suggests that that's the norm Eucharist. The altar had been sitting in a museum in Israel since the 1960s and just hadn't been tested. Little attempt has been made, however, to bridge the gap between \"pagan\" and \"Christian\" or to examine late antique, Christian attitudes toward sexuality and marriage from the viewpoint of the \"average\" Christian. Because ergot is just very common. And when Houston says something like that, it grabs the attention of a young undergrad a bit to your south in Providence, Rhode Island, who was digging into Latin and Greek and wondering what the heck this was all about. Now, I think you answered that last part. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian There's some suggestive language in the pyramid texts, in the Book of the Dead and things of this nature. Now we're getting somewhere. The Immortality Key - David Bookstaber I mean, I asked lots of big questions in the book, and I fully acknowledge that. CHARLES STANG: Right. So it is already happening. Part 1 Brian C. Muraresku: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis and the Hallucinogenic Origins of Religion 3 days ago Plants of the Gods: S4E1. And I think we get hung up on the jargon. And much of the evidence that you've collected is kind of the northern half of the Mediterranean world. If you look at Dioscorides, for example, his Materia Medica, that's written in the first century AD around the same time that the Gospels themselves are being written. And he found some beer and wine-- that was a bit surprising. 13,000 years old. Others find it in different ways, but the common denominator seems to be one of these really well-curated near-death experiences. So why refrain? So the closer we get to the modern period, we're starting to find beer, wine mixed with interesting things. PDF Thesis-The Religion of Constantine I - University Of Ottawa So the Greek god of wine, intoxication. And according to Wasson, Hofmann, and Ruck, that barley was really a code word. So it's hard for me to write this and talk about this without acknowledging the Jesuits who put me here. This event is entitled, Psychedelics, The Ancient Religion With No Name? Thank you. But it survives. And does it line up with the promise from John's gospel that anyone who drinks this becomes instantly immortal? 25:15 Dionysus and the "pagan continuity hypothesis" 30:54 Gnosticism and Early Christianity . In May of last year, researchers published what they believe is the first archaeochemical data for the use of psychoactive drugs in some form of early Judaism. The pagan continuity hypothesis at the heart of this book made sense to me. Interesting. let's take up your invitation and move from Dionysus to early Christianity. But I mentioned that we've become friends because it is the prerogative of friends to ask hard questions. What does that have to do with Christianity? It was a pilgrimage site. Is there a smoking gun? So after the whole first half of the book-- well, wait a minute, Dr. Stang. What's the wine? So even from the very beginning, it wasn't just barley and water. There have been really dramatic studies from Hopkins and NYU about the ability of psilocybin at the end of life to curb things like depression, anxiety, and end of life distress. The pagan continuity hypothesis theorizes that when Christianity arrived in Greece around AD 49, it didn't suddenly replace the existing religion. Not just in Italy, but as kind of the headquarters for the Mediterranean. I have a deep interest in mysticism, and I've had mystical experiences, which I don't think are very relevant. And what does this earliest history tell us about the earliest evidence for an ancient psychedelic religion? So, although, I mean, and that actually, I'd like to come back to that, the notion of the, that not just the pagan continuity hypothesis, but the mystery continuity hypothesis through the Vatican. So it wasn't just a random place to find one of these spiked wines. I am excited . 101. I would have been happy to find a spiked wine anywhere. Hard archaeobotanical, archaeochemical data, I haven't seen it. But I don't understand how that provides any significant link to paleo-Christian practice. All rights reserved. And at some point in my narrative, I do include mention of Gobekli Tepe, for example, which is essentially twice the age of Stonehenge. I go out of my way, in both parts of the book, which, it's divided into the history of beer and the history of wine, essentially. We have an hour and a half together and I hope there will be time for Q&A and discussion. That also only occurs in John, another epithet of Dionysus. Not because they just found that altar. And there are legitimate scholars out there who say, because John wanted to paint Jesus in the light of Dionysus, present him as the second coming of this pagan God. Brought to you by CHARLES STANG: Well, Mr, Muraresku, you are hedging your bets here in a way that you do not necessarily hedge your bets in the book. In this hypothesis, both widely accepted and widely criticized,11 'American' was synonymous with 'North American'. Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and Conservation He co-writes that with Gordon Wasson and Albert Hofmann, who famously-- there it is, the three authors. So your presentation of early Christianity inclines heavily toward the Greek world. And maybe in these near-death experiences we begin to actually experience that at a visceral level. Let me just pull up my notes here. Before the church banned their use, early Christians used - Substack Read more about The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku Making Sense by Sam Harris CHARLES STANG: Wonderful. Its proponents maintain that the affable, plump old fellow associated with Christmas derives from the character of Arctic medical practitioners. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and . Nazanin Boniadi Is this only Marcus? That seems very believable, but there's nothing to suggest that the pharmacy or drug farm was serving Christians, or even that the potions produced were for ritual use. Now, Carl Ruck from Boston University, much closer to home, however, took that invitation and tried to pursue this hypothesis. The Gnostics did have continuity with paganism. And I answer it differently every single time. If you are drawn to psychedelics, in my mind, it means you're probably drawn to contemplative mysticism. And considering the common background of modern religions (the Pagan Continuity hypothesis), any religious group who thinks they are chosen or correct are promoting a simplistic and ignorant view of our past. David Wakefield - President - Wakefield Enterprises, LLC | LinkedIn Where are the drugs? But what we do know is that their sacrament was wine and we know a bit more about the wine of antiquity, ancient Greek wine, than we can piece together from these nocturnal celebrations. So when Hippolytus is calling out the Marcosians, and specifically women, consecrating this alternative Eucharist in their alternative proto-mass, he uses the Greek word-- and we've talked about this before-- but he uses the Greek word [SPEAKING GREEK] seven times in a row, by the way, without specifying which drugs he's referring to. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. In this way, the two traditions coexisted in a syncretic form for some time before . And I, for one, look forward to a time when I can see him in person for a beer, ergotized beer or not, if he ever leaves Uruguay. It's something that goes from Homer all the way until the fall of the Roman Empire, over the course of well more than 1,000 years. And I asked her openly if we could test some of the many, many containers that they have, some on display, and many more in repository there. With more than 35 years of experience in the field of Education dedicated to help students, teachers and administrators in both public and private institutions at school, undergraduate and graduate level. Yeah. And apparently, the book is on order, so I can't speak to this directly, but the ancient Greek text that preserves this liturgy also preserves the formula, the ingredients of the eye ointment. And so I don't know what a really authentic, a really historic-looking ritual that is equal parts sacred, but also, again, medically sound, scientifically rigorous, would look like. But what I hear from people, including atheists, like Dina Bazer, who participated in these Hopkins NYU trials is that she felt like on her one and only dose of psilocybin that she was bathed in God's love. You take a board corporate finance attorney, you add in lots of childhood hours watching Indiana Jones, lots of law school hours reading Dan Brown, you put it all together and out pops The Immortality Key. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter. There are others claiming that there's drugs everywhere. I think the only big question is what the exact relationship was from a place like that over to Eleusis. I'm not. And I describe that as somehow finding that key to immortality. These two accuse one Gnostic teacher named Marcus-- who is himself a student of the famous theologian Valentinus-- they accuse him of dabbling in pharmacological devilry. BRIAN MURARESKU: But you're spot on. And if there's historical precedent for it, all the more so. Phil's Picks | Phoenix Books So now it's true that these heresy hunters show an interest in this love potion. CHARLES STANG: We've really read Jesus through the lens of his Greek inheritors. And maybe therein we do since the intimation of immortality. So, you know, I specifically wanted to avoid heavily relying on the 52 books of the [INAUDIBLE] corpus or heavily relying too much on the Gospel of Mary Magdalene and the evidence that's come from Egypt. Correcting Key Points in Muraresku, The Immortality Key And her best guess is that it was like this open access sanctuary. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. The Tim Ferriss Show Podcast | Free Listening on Podbean App So the mysteries of Dionysus are a bit more of a free-for-all than the mysteries of Eleusis. So don't feel like you have to go into great depth at this point. CHARLES STANG: OK. And that's a question equally for ancient historians and for contemporary seekers and/or good Catholics. OK. Now let's pan back because, we have-- I want to wrap up my interrogation of you, which I've been pressing you, but I feel as if perhaps people joining me think I'm hostile to this hypothesis. But it just happens to show up at the right place at the right time, when the earliest Christians could have availed themselves of this kind of sacrament. CHARLES STANG: Brian, I want to thank you for your time. 36:57 Drug-spiked wine . CHARLES STANG: So that actually helps answer a question that's in the Q&A that was posed to me, which is why did I say I fully expect that we will find evidence for this? She found the remains of dog sacrifice, which is super interesting. The only reason I went to college was to study classics. 1,672. And I think there are lots of reasons to believe that. There's John Marco Allegro claiming that there was no Jesus, and this was just one big amanita muscaria cult. The idea of the truth shall set you free, right, [SPEAKING GREEK], in 8:32. So I don't write this to antagonize them or the church, the people who, again, ushered me into this discipline and into these questions. Newsweek calls him 'the world's best human guinea pig,' and The New York Times calls him 'a cross between Jack Welch and a Buddhist monk.' In this show, he deconstructs world-class performers from eclectic areas (investing, chess, pro sports, etc . CHARLES STANG: Yeah. And let's start with our earliest evidence from the Stone Age and the Bronze Age. Two Reviews of The Immortality Key - Graham Hancock And that's the mysteries of Dionysus. We still have almost 700 with us. Then I'll ask a series of questions that follow the course of his book, focusing on the different ancient religious traditions, the evidence for their psychedelic sacraments, and most importantly, whether and how the assembled evidence yields a coherent picture of the past. I want to thank you for putting up with me and my questions. So the Eastern Aegean. The same Rome that circumstantially shows up, and south of Rome, where Constantine would build his basilicas in Naples and Capua later on. That to live on forever and ever, to live an everlasting life is not immortality. And again, it survives, I think, because of that state support for the better part of 2,000 years. What about Jesus as a Jew? Continuity Hypothesis - Keith E Rice's Integrated SocioPsychology Blog He was wronged by individuals, allegedly. OK, now, Brian, you've probably dealt with questions like this. The phrasing used in the book and by others is "the pagan continuity hypothesis". And yet I talked to an atheist who has one experience with psilocybin and is immediately bathed in God's love. Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and - TopPodcast What does God mean? Now, here's-- let's tack away from hard, scientific, archaeobotanical evidence for a moment. And Brian, once again, thank you so much. And so if there is a place for psychedelics, I would think it would be in one of those sacred containers within monastic life, or pilgrims who visit one of these monastic centers, for example. Then I see the mysteries of Dionysus as kind of the Burning Man or the Woodstock of the ancient world. Thank you all for joining us, and I hope to see many of you later this month for our next event. would certainly appreciate. He's joining us from Uruguay, where he has wisely chosen to spend his pandemic isolation. Research inside the Church of Saint Faustina and Liberata Fig 1. But please do know that we will forward all these questions to Brian so he will know the sorts of questions his work prompts. So you were unable to test the vessels on site in Eleusis, which is what led you to, if I have this argument right, to Greek colonies around the Mediterranean. Psychedelics Weekly - Prince Harry and Psychedelics, Proposed #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More by The Tim Ferriss Show So Brian, I wonder, maybe we should give the floor to you and ask you to speak about, what are the questions you think both ancient historians such as myself should be asking that we're not, and maybe what are the sorts of questions that people who aren't ancient historians but who are drawn to this evidence, to your narrative, and to the present and the future of religion, what sort of questions should they be asking regarding psychedelics? I'm not sure where it falls. And I just happened to fall into that at the age of 14 thanks to the Jesuits, and just never left it behind. In fact, he found beer, wine, and mead all mixed together in a couple of different places. Maybe part of me is skeptical, right? All episodes of The Tim Ferriss Show - Chartable So I really follow the scholarship of Enriqueta Pons, who is the archaeologist on site there, at this Greek sanctuary that we're talking about in Catalonia, Mas Castellar des Pontos. And so I can see psychedelics being some kind of extra sacramental ministry that potentially could ease people at the end of life. To assess this hypothesis and, perhaps, to push it further, has required years of dogged and, at times, discouraging works in archives and archaeology. You obviously think these are powerful substances with profound effects that track with reality. So there's a house preserved outside of Pompeii, preserved, like so much else, under the ash of Mount Vesuvius's eruption in the year 79 of the Common Era. BRIAN MURARESKU: I don't-- I don't claim too heavily. If your history is even remotely correct, that would have ushered in a very different church, if Valentinus's own student Marcus and the Marcosians were involved in psychedelic rituals, then that was an early road not taken, let's say. And anyone who drinks this, [SPEAKING GREEK], Jesus says in Greek, you remain in me and I in you. And very famous passages, by the way, that should be familiar to most New Testament readers. At Cambridge University he worked in developmental biolo. So I'll speak in language that you and our good colleague Greg [? The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name But it was not far from a well-known colony in [INAUDIBLE] that was founded by Phocians. The book proposes a history of religious ritualistic psychedelic use at least as old as the ancient Greek mystery religions, especially those starting in Eleusis and dating to roughly 2,000 BC. I'd never thought before about how Christianity developed as an organized religion in the centuries after Jesus' murder. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and improving