For a transformer less or equal to 500 kilovolt-amperes, a typical %Z impedance may vary between 2.3% and 5.2% based on the voltage level. Again, an independent power supply and distribution bus is a good idea for your switches. If you like fixing things, fixing an old transformer is rewarding. I bet they would be great for running lights and unloading the main transformer. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. Lionel developed and perfected its model designs and layouts during the Pre-War Era (1901-1942). Dave: That certainly qualifies, don't forget the anti-gun lobbyist with the picket sign's. This is where the Lionel transformer comparisons should begin. Model train transformer- 6 steps to understanding how they work Get 20 articles about compact layouts and how to build them. At auction, Lionel train sets, pieces, and accessories can sell for a few hundred dollars or for a few thousand dollars, depending on the rarity and condition of the piece. --Toy Train Collecting and Operating, by John Grams. I've read that it is good practice to add feeders every 10 sections of track or sothat seems like a lot but I suppose that beats having "dead" spots in the track. Our community is FREE to join. Lionel 1033 Transformer Renovation Part I Peter Fenzel 306 subscribers Subscribe 11K views 3 years ago Lionel 1033 Transformer gets cleaned up, a new power cord, a new whistle rectifier. The circuit breaker should trip with a click and the transformer should go dead. I really doubt you will need more than that. The Lionel Track & Power catalog is BACK with the latest information for more ways to make your layout even bigger, better and more powerful! It does not work with O27. Lionel Trains|MTH Train|Lionel Train Sets| HO model Trains| G Scale|Dept 56 For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. Subscribers, sign in to access exclusive content. On the flip side, the new transformers do not seem to work as well with the prewar whistle tenders.Has anyone else noticed this anomaly? Tales From Harmon Shops, WTB: LIONEL AUTRORACKS SPECIFICALLY SOUTHERN,GRAND TRUNK,BNSF,FERROMEX. Find 500+ popular train rides, museums, and railroad vacation destinations in the U.S and Canada! What about removing flanges from diesel wheels? I have one R transformer from which I run everything - but only 1 train at a time and a few accessories for a layout in a space about 24 by 10 ft. I got a lot of lightweight transformers that came with starter sets over the years. A solid and stranded wire of the same gauge will be the same total diameter. Price Received. In addition to the wire itself, connectors like crimp-on terminals and terminal blocks must also be purchased in larger (and more expensive) sizes. Click here to learn about the Unlimited Membership. Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct And of course, individual Fastrack sections are also available. If you want a spur track to store an extra car or two, Lionel makes another expansion set [#12044] that does just that: Note that this set includes one switch which is the track section that makes the track diverge onto two separate routes. It has FasTrack connectors on one end and O Gauge track pins on the other. You can also minimize voltage drop at the rail joints by soldering the rails together. Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. Also, you wont be able to take advantage of independent control of multiple engines on the same track without a digital controller. Below weve listed these transformers in numerical order in the Numerical Index. The least expensive power supply you should consider is the Lionel CW80 Transformer; you can buy a new one for about $150 or a used on one eBay for about $60. This set also includes an uncoupling track section, which will disconnect cars from one another at the touch of a button, and a bumper, which keeps cars from rolling off the end of the track. For many first-time train buyers, once the initial excitement of setting up the train and watching it run has passed, the desire to make it do more usually begins. what size lionel transformer do i need. How to Properly Size a Transformer | Behler-Young Keep the power supplies in an area where they get plenty of air circulation to prevent overheating. The modern equivalent is the Lionel CW-80, but frankly I like the old ones better. But if you already have a 1034 and dont need a whistle button, go ahead and use it. As you can see, a lot of great helpers here. Mint-in-box examples of vintage Lionel trains are still valuable and will continue to appreciate in value over time, because there are so few of them. Its a bargain at that price. Also, I found an old guide printed by lionel on power requirements. --Build a Better Toy Train Layout, by John Grams and Dick Christianson. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. I run an MTH 4-6-2 PS-1 pulling five Madisons on about fifty feet of track and the transformer I am using (Z-4000) has a digital amp readout. They run on O Gauge track, but they are not exact O Scale cars. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. Regardless of your scale, all model railroad switch machines fall into one of two categories, a slow-motion electric motor or a "twin coil" relay. Unless I'm all wet it sounded like there are somecompatibilityissues with certain locomotives versus manufacturer's transformer output wave forms. Not wanting to give up, I experimented with an 80 watt modern Lionel transformer and got great results. In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. Lionel made these for years and kept them in production under a different model number well into the 1970s because it was a reliable, dependable design and had enough power for a typical starter set while leaving some room to grow. Lionel Rolling Stock Identification Guide. Also, you must have a built-in circuit breaker to prevent a short circuit from causing permanent damage to the power supply or the trains. Never Enough Room, Time or Money for all the Trains! Join Today! Big Ed Railroad Tycoon If you want to connect ten landscape lights to a magnetic transformer, and the lights use 30 watts each, you would need a 375 watt transformer. Sign up for new product releases, promotions, and more. In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. Today, with some luck, you can get one for closer to $100. What size Lionel transformer do I need? 5 years of Classic Toy Trains at your fingertips! The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. Lionel introduced a few LionChief Plus 2.0 starter sets in 2022. Here are some guidelines for the most common wiring jobs you'll find. It is also a good idea to run your accessories off of a separate power supply and wire grid from the trains themselves. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Ran 6 motors [MPC's]. converting a 2-rail freight car to 2-rail with Atlas trucks, My Triple Level Layout -FREEBIE UPDATE- 3/2/23, Successful Open House Upstate (NY) Model Railroaders, FS: Lionel MPC and modern traditional size rolling stock. But Lionel now produces four Track Expansion Sets, which expand this basic loop into something more exciting. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. The CW-80 Transformer was meant to operate on 120-volt, 60-Hertz power. A new ZW will run you in the neighborhood of $450.00 or a little less depending on your dealership. Are you running command or conventional? Model Train Track & Transformer at Lionel Trains What size Lionel transformer do I need? - Tracks-movie.com It also has an optional bell sound that can be turned on and off. You must be signed in to continue. LGB FAQs : Power Older transformers I had this issue with are RW, 1033, KW, ZW.newer transformers were all made by MTH. The first is the traditional or classic size, which are the cars that match starter sets. God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. Ive written more about the Lionel ZW here. The iconic and legendary 270-watt Lionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. For instance, a 100 kilovolt-ampere transformer with 8.32 kilovolts (or less) on the high side has a typical value of 2.6% impedance. You don't really need a diagram -- you want to pick your interval (some would recommend as often as 3'), drill a hole down through your base, and connect a wire to a bus which runs beneath the layout and connects to your transformer (obviously, you need two wires, one for each powered rail). http://www.lccuk.org.uk/lccuk Regards Nick Save Reply Quote N Nick12DMC Registered Why Sign In? There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. Lionel Fastrack Track System O Scale Trains | Lionel Fastrack for Sale I talk more in depth about the 1033 here. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. Most people start with a pre-packaged train set. Again, if you have a very long run between switches, going a little larger is less likely to cause problems with voltage loss. Most feeders will be only a few inches long so the smaller diameter wire will not be a problem. These can all have uses for your layout. The same is true for other electronic projects around your layout and inside buildings, train cars, and even locomotives. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. Which Lionel transformer do I need? - The Silicon Underground I didnt mention the 1034 above because its easier to find a 1033. The Lionel ZW is Lionel's most iconic transformer of the 1950s and 1960s, and perhaps one of its most iconic products, period. Today Lionel includes the same basic track oval in all starter sets8 36-inch diameter curve sections, 3 10 straight track sections, and 1 10 straight terminal section, which create this layout: Until recently, to add to this layout, you would need to buy separate straight, curved, and other track sections and wing it in creating a larger setup. For a passenger train with lighted cars, getting a little more power isnt a bad idea. By continuing to use this site, you indicate you accept these terms. Transformer Size Requirement? - Classic Toy Trains Magazine It is 5" long. "What size wire should I use?" I have noticed that my old transformers do not work well or not work at all with newer electronic whistle tenders. A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life.". This will spread the load of your lighted passenger consist across the two transformers. If youre going to run more than one train, you can pair up two smaller transformers, or you can look at the two-handled transformers. Wire Gauge Standards for Model Train Layouts - The Spruce Crafts My question is.how big of a transformer will I need to power this thing? Some DCC systems also recommend solid wire for certain applications. If you plan to just run MTH go with their DCS system if you plan to have a number of different engines or the MTH DCS Remote Commander which is limited to running only one engine at a time. In three-rail systems, the outer rails are both grounded, and the center rail is "hot.". The thing that eats current is a lot of light bulbs on the layout. (using 4 of the 180 watt Lionel bricks) That's 10 amps per channel on all 4 channels. Here are some simple definitions for these electrical terms: Most power supplies will be labeled as to the scales they are meant to handle. This signifies compatibility with 50 Hertz power. Lionel CW80's can be found for around $50 at Greenberg and other train shows. Effort. Do not use this device if water is present. How Many Lights Can I Connect To My Transformer? - LightUp Doug, there's definitely room for the liberal arts approach to the hobby--I have a journalism degree; how I became a computer technician was pretty much an accident. This drawing illustrates all of the key functionality of a Lionel KW transformer. I went to mth Z1000, jason's train shop has the best price's I have seen for these. Keeping in mind that I will likely continue to add to the layout as my addiction develops! :-). If you want a transformer with power to spare go get a ZW! I've got around 320 ft of track between all of the mainline, sidings, etc and I don't have any problems running my engines anywhere on the layout. The KW has constant voltage outputs for accessories, the ZW don't have that feature just four handles for supplying power to four tracks or accessories if you like, both have whistle & direction feature. You can use bus and feeder wires to more evenly distribute the power over your track. I think the RW is a bit better value, but that could just be timing. Just not quite as much. They are fun to have. Mike, The size of the transformer is dictated by what you want to run, the more you run the more power you will need. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! To determine the required transformer VA, multiply the secondary voltage by the required amperes: For example, VA=Volts x Amperes or 28V x 1.2 amperes = 33.6 VA. To determine the maximum transformer current, divide the transformer VA by transformer secondary voltage. To amplify CTvalley's very valid instructions: A forum community dedicated to model train owners and enthusiasts. Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. They give a true 180 watts and have excellent electronic breakers. Ryan Kunkle is a nationally recognized professional model train expert and writer with over 25 years of experience. As the kit grows and you start putting in turnouts (or the point switching systems) to move your train from one track to another track, you will not only need more than 1 transformer, you will. Part of the Lionel line since the 1930s, the gateman today is offered not only with a regular railroad-type figure, but also in versions with Santa Claus and a nutcracker figure for the Christmas season. Sell Your Trains To A Train Dealer or a Single Buyer. Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. Apparently there is a difference between old conventional and new conventional power. I will make a note here. M3103. Remember, the only silly question is the one that you did not ask. Sell Your Trains Using a Live Auction House. Ive talked more about the KW here. The KW used to be really expensive, but since Lionel started making big transformers again, you can get a KW for what a 1033 used to cost, which makes it a very nice bargain today on a rugged and powerful transformer with an impressive presence. I know this has nothing to do with Mike's original problem but is more of a reflection on Trainman's reply. Plug one of your transformers into each Fixed in. Note that when working with specific products, manufacturers will often recommend a wire size and type. I have a basement that offers an 18" concrete ledge that goes around theentire perimeter of the house that lends itself perfectly to a neat layout. Never had a problem. Should it be a Lionel or should it be an MTH with command control? Handbook of layout wiring | Classic Toy Trains Magazine The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. In most cases, because we are dealing with relatively low voltage and amperage and in a normally stable temperature and humidity climates, our wiring does not require any extra insulation. QUOTE: by Skyray "Typical engineer--you need a technician. These are all good, dependable transformers from the postwar era that are easy to find today, have adequate wattages ranging from 90-270 watts, have a circuit breaker for safety and have a whistle controller. Classic Toy Trains 5-Year Collection 2015-2019 DVD-ROM. Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading. Most power supplies will perform very well for years if used within their limits. For safety reasons, the batteries were soon replaced by a 110 volt transformer. The backside of a control panel can turn into a "rat's nest" of wiring very quickly. The greatest transformer Lionel made in the postwar era was the 270 watt Lionel ZW. I am assuming that your starter set came with either o27, brown ties, or 031, black ties, track and it runs well as is. Lionel uses red and black (red always for the center rail, black for the two outer rails) as a standard in its instructions and most 3-Rail O Gauge layouts are probably wired this way. There have been issues with chopped waveform transformers, i.e. OTTS Founder
Although it will not have any impact on the performance of the wire within, choosing multiple colors of wire, and standardizing on a specific color for each function, will go a long way in making your wiring easier to install and easier to detect flaws later on. To build on the point you are running MTH trains and therefore will probably go DCS eventually: I would break the track into blocks of about 5 feet in length. You can also run Lionel TMCC/Legacy Command Engines using the MTH DCS system with the addition of a Lionel command base and an additional cable. I'm sure I'll need more help along the way, so I'll be checking back in with more silly questions! Members enjoy 15% off any purchase in our store. 4.1 4.1 out of 5 stars (15) Ages: 14 years and up. This type of transformer is cheap, its reliable, and its easy to find. We use a ZW 275 and a KW on this, so 405 watts. If your going to run anything more that what came with the set then you should probably upgrade to something a little bigger. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. This is different from the stranded wire in that the different individual wires, each with their color-coded insulation, is placed inside a secondary insulation wrap. I am currently running about 40 bulbs, which at 0.1 A each total 4 amps! Lots of good tips for building a layout from two of the most experienced people in the hobby. The whistle requires more power than the outfits that don't have it. While better starter sets usually include a more robust transformer, as a general rule the power pack supplied with your starter set is just thata start. Choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198. (Use buss/feeder lines to distribute power.) UpBright 18V AC/DC Adapter Compatible with Lionel O Gauge Fastrack 10" Remote Control Terminal Straight LionChief System Track 6-1923100 HKYF45-180230T-US DC18V 2300mA 18VDC Power Supply Cord Charger. Lionel trains value varies depending on design, materials, and era. All about the Lionel ZW - The Silicon Underground This is a old school approach for sizing cables & transformers or appliances in the electrical trade, & has never let us down. As your layout grows beyond the basic oval of track that comes with most starter sets, a good power distribution network is essential to getting consistent performance from your train all the way around. When running a mixed bag train show with new and old trains of mixed types such as Loinel and MTH which is better? DCC decoders are one good example where the wire colors are critical. The multi-conductor wire is also available. My layout I am building is 5 sheets of 4x8 plywood and it will probaly take me 100 years to build it (I hope I have that much time left). RemembertheVeterans. Just connect the jumper wires to the same connections on the back of your transformer as your original connections, and make sure that the wires are not crossed. Early issues used a Bakelite case while later releases had a case made out of plastic. Frankly, its hard to go wrong with either of these transformers, especially at todays prices. The best of the best Lionel trains are very valuable. Transformer Size Calculator - Electram Will get a Z4000 one day [this summer probably, unless I find a good deal on an older ZW] just to say I have one. For a 300W set up this will cost you about 100. These transformers are much cheaper than they were even just a few years ago, but that just makes them a bigger bargain today. Because the runs are short and power demands so low, this fine wire poses no safety threat. HO trains are very durable and are made with high quality parts and pieces to ensure the longevity of the Lionel train brand! Lest I offend, in another plane of existence I was an electronics tech. The Lionel Multi-control 1033 is a 90 watt transformer produced from 1948 to 1956. Smaller feeder wires are used to bridge the small gap from the bus to the track. Used a 1033 for accessories and lights. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. A. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, WELCOME TO THE FORUM Mike!! Many will still run on the track in your starter set, but because they are scale sized, the bodies of these cars may be slightly wider and longer than those in your set. Use the CW-80 Transformer only for its intended purpose. Lionel Electric Toy Train Transformer Identification Guide Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout.